RobotStudio event

UAS setting in 5.11?

Options
Yu I
Yu I
in RobotStudio

Hello,

I need to use UAS setting in 5.11. But I can't find it other than on- line tab. I need to use a system with UAS by offline. I'd appreciate your help.

BR

Yu

Comments

  • Anders S
    Anders S mod
    Options

    Hello Yu,

    The UAS settings are only available for online systems (robot controllers). Offline systems (virtual controllers) always use the default user.

    Best regards,
    Anders Spaak
    ABB Robotics
  • Yu I
    Yu I
    Options

    Hello Spaak,

    Is there any way to connect to VC in RS 5.11 by RSO? I need to use UAS.

    I have 1 more question. After I upgraded to 5.11, I downgraded to 5.10 again. But RSO could't connect to VC of RS5.10. How can I connect?

    Yu   

  • kegley182
    kegley182 ✭
    Options
    Although this may now be true for 5.11, this was not the case for 5.10... and I use that capability for developing offline where PC applications have different logins... logins other than default to achiev "mastership".

     

     

    Is there a way to use the "Online" tab and "Add a Control", where that control is the VC?

     

    I need the ability to change UAS settings on my VC and I need the ability to login on the Virt FlexPendant... like was possibly in 5.10...

     

    To that end, is there a way to connect the  New "RSO"(or "Online" tab) with the virtual control?     Previously you could open a instance of RSO from within RS... thus achieving a connection to the VC just as if it were a real control.... apparently the new version(5.11) doesn't automatically connect to the VC as it should and you are left with the psuedo controls in the "Offline" tab.   


     

     

    Is there a way to use the "Online" tab and "Add a Control", where that control is the VC?

     


    IN ADDITION the ability to "Coldstart" the VC was also made possible by the 5.10 VC connection to 5.10 RSO.... Another reason that a real RSO connection is needed in 5.11.

     

     

    Is there a way to use the "Online" tab and "Add a Control", where that control is the VC?

     

    Note: when "Creating a system from backup" the UAS settings come in with the new Virtual system....   and the Virt Flexpendant will function with the UAS settings the same as the backed up control... ie you can login as a different user in the VirtFlexpendant .... thus confirming that the VC is definetely NOT always logged in as default user.... and also confirming that the only thing needed is the same functionality as in 5.10 where RSO can connect to the VC.

     


     

     

    Is there a way to use the "Online" tab and "Add a Control", where that control is the VC?

     

     

     

     

     

     
    Mike Kegley
  • kegley182
    kegley182 ✭
    Options

     

    Since my last post I have found a way to change UAS settings on the VC...   Although I haven't been able to connect the "online" to the VC, there is an obscure way to perform at least this specific funtion.

    First, select any tab EXCEPT the online tab... try the "offline" tab...

    THEN...Right Click on the main menu bar .... choose "customize commands..."

     

    In the top left of the GUI there's a drop down box entitled "Show commands from:"   select the "online" selection from the drop down.... and then add the "Authenticate" icon to the "Quick-Access Toolbar"  (stuff it in the right column with the add button and select the close button)

     

    now you can select the "offline"(or any tab except the online) tab and then select the "Authenticate" button from the "quick access" menu and you can login or change UAS settings on the Virtual control....

     

    THEN, you can post a new question .....  "Why can this "online icon" only work when in ANY tab EXCEPT the  "online" tab..... when connected to a VC.....   ?    

     

     

     

     
    Mike Kegley
  • kegley182
    kegley182 ✭
    Options
     

     

     

    ..... Also, there are some more icons under the "other" category that can be used as well... see pic below

     

    image
    Mike Kegley
  • Henrik Berlin
    Henrik Berlin ✭✭✭
    Options

    Hi,

    The are two main reasons why UAS is not available for VCs in RobotStudio-
    * Usability - for most users this creates more problem than it solves in the Offline world where there are no safety or security issues.
    * Functionality - There is one common UAS setting per computer. This means all running VCs will be affected by the same UAS setting.

    The distinction between Offline and Online is done for usability reasons. The user must be aware when he is working with a VC (Offline) and when is working with an RC (Online). This will be the default behaviour.

    The term "Cold start" in RobotStudio 5.10 has been changed to "I-start" in RobotStudio 5.11. The reason is not to mix it up with "C-Start" that is available on the RC. This is inline with terminology in RSO 5.10 and VFP since IRC5 was introduced. "C-start" is not relevant for VC.

    The design paradigm that RSO was based on saying basically that "The VC shall behave exactly like the RC" has been somewhat tuned with the introduction of RS5.11. It has been changed to something like "The VC shall behave like the RC in all relevant aspects". From our point of view, relevant = program execution, motion and I/O, excluding Operating mode, UAS and Write access.

    You obviously belong to the category of advanced users for which UAS is not an obstacle. I am glad you seem to have found a workaround.

     

     
    Henrik Berlin
    ABB
  • kegley182
    kegley182 ✭
    Options

    Hello Henrik,

    I appreciate your authoritative perspective on the design paradigm.  The "The VC shall behave exactly... " version of the paradigm is the one I hope you will not lose sight of and will indeed revert back to.   That paradigm has been very obvious throughout all of the functionality of RS VC over the years and continually improved to become a better simulator because of it.  

    I and my colleagues have been able to do some amazing things with your VC.    It allows us to develop 100% offline... PC applications....   FP apps...   laser probing and vision system apps... fully interactive on the VC... even determining affects of calibration can be done offline. We've done some things that may not have been done had we not had the VC as it is.

     

    I've developed at both the "path" and "system" level for many years on numerous machine types and brand names... your VC is second to none.   I have always spent a great deal of time and money in our lab on controller hardware and s/w development trying to make my simulator behave as close to production machines as possible.  It would not be uncommon for me to spend 3 months making a simulator and $100k on putting the hardware together, just to get reasonably close to production..... You can imagine how much I appreciate your VC....

     

    However if you change your discipline in the slightest to the  "...in all relevant ways" version of the paradigm, then you begin to impose your concept of  "what is relevant" onto your user base (..me,for example).....   I for one don't think that anyone can know all the things that our users will find possible(or relevant) with the tools we build for them.  

     

    Also consider that to modify UAS settings(and perform other commissioning items on a real robot you must have RSO... Development of PC applications absolutely requires "mastership" techniques, and to develop them offline the VC must support testable UAS situations....     Why not simply allow RSO to connect to your virtual control...(whether it's called "online" or RSO really doesn't matter)...   there is no reason to deviate from your original paradigm.    IF offline programmers need to have a less complicated version then provide for that in your offline programming portion... but don't kill the purity of the VC (or the tools that work with it) in order to accomplish it.

    P-starts are critical to me.... my production systems do a lot at the Pstart version of cold starting...  and I perform proof-of-concept  and test all of this offline  before committing to production with your VC.  However, if you determine in the future that P-starts are not "relevant" to path programming (and I would say it isn't)l, then that affects my ability to design, test, build and implement solid system architecture...

     

    In fact I would like to see you go further.... far enough so I can perform X-starts and have multiple systems loaded on a virtual control and switch between them via xstart... and see resource issues between the systems ... etc..... then at some point be able to run multiple robot systems with separate resources; UAS grants; and X,I,P,B,C or warm start any of them without affecting the others that mimic the real controller(s)... we will be building a real multi controller; multi-move line where every system interacts with the others in the next few years... it would be handy to be able to proof it, then build it all offline.... Sticking with the "..exactly" paradigm would be necessary.

     

    Also I'd like to see UAS settings applicable on the FlexPendent... where FPapplications can have different access than the logged in user (we need this)... and an "exact" VC would enable us to develop and test those features offline.

     

    Furthermore tuning down to "what's relevant "will likely cause problems when trying to sync with whatever the latest and greatest version of Robotware is... currently you have an excellent definition of what the VC should do... "everything that the real control does"... it should make it easier to interface between the ABB s/w camps with such a clear definition....( or at least more difficult if you don't have that definition.)

      

     




    Thanks for your response to my post; your attention and your time...   We'll be looking forward to

    RS5.12 (and Robotware 5.12) with anticipation...

     


    Mike Kegley</>

    MPT Controls and Robotics</>

     
    kegley1822008-10-08 02:31:26
    Mike Kegley
  • kegley182
    kegley182 ✭
    Options

    Follow up...
     

    With a large amount of installing/ un-installing; recompiling; and coding different scenarios,   I think I discovered the following with respect to UAS settings and RS 5.11 and PC SDK 5.11.

     

    UAS settings DO indeed work in RS5.11....  IF you follow the previoius posting about getting the buttons on the menu.... AND you also have RS 5.10 installed at the same time as RS5.11..

     

    It will also work without RS5.10 installed concurrently...  BUT there are some error messages that you'll have to ignore. (a component from RSO 5.10 will pop up, even though it is not installed, and allow you to change settings...)

     

    To test correctly PC SDK applications should have to connect; login; and request mastership properly AND be denied by the VC if not done properly(correct login credentials).... 

     

    I found that PC SDK applications will correctly test while running a rs5.11 VC and station... however, this was with rs5.10 installed(but not running) concurrently..... Using the rab5.11 PC SDK that same functionality works on RS5.10 stations/systems.    I did not completely test whether the PC SDK tests properly without RS5.10 installed, but it appeared to.

     

     Furthermore,  If a backup is used to create a system in RS... then the UAS settings come with the backup..(although, I can't see how)... but it does.  The PC SDK will recognize the UAS settings from the backup-derived system... and so will RSO from 5.10...  and so will RS5.11... the only exception to this is IF RS5.10 is NOT installed concurrently, then only the PC SDK will recognize the UAS settings, the UAS tool of rs5.11 will not see the UAS settings of the system....

     

     
    kegley1822008-10-08 03:12:13
    Mike Kegley

Categories

In this Discussion