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Example for multimove with 2+ robots and 2+ external axes?

k_schmid
k_schmid ✭
in RobotStudio
hi,
Are there any more complex emaples fro setting up multimove?
I am planning on 2 robots and 2 external axes ( 1 linear, 1 rotating).
When I try adding them all the system wont configure, tried external axis wizard as well.
Thanks for your help

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  • k_schmid
    k_schmid ✭
    edited May 2019
    External axes are driven by mu100 and mu200
    and just found this
    Application manual
    Additional axes and stand alone controller


  • kschmid
    kschmid ✭
    The configuration isnt supported by build from layout, but not sure if i need to create my own moc.cfg since both motors are abb standard parts?
    What defines a valid configuration and can it be added?

  • graemepaulin
    graemepaulin mod
    The manual you found gives the solution with the  template files - page number depends on the version of the manual but is in the installation chapter or search for " template files "
  • k_schmid
    k_schmid ✭
    edited May 2019
    Thanks for the hint, just found them moved to
    C:\Users\$USER\AppData\Local\ABB Industrial IT\Robotics IT\RobotWare\RobotWare_6.08.1040\utility\AdditionalAxis
    I previously thought they were gone


    Post edited by k_schmid on
  • kschmid
    kschmid ✭
    edited May 2019
    Thanks so much. Like in any reasonable complex software there are lots of ways to do the same thing...
    Examples are using the System Builder but my understanding is that it should be used with version 6 anymore? 
    Is the workobject already needed at system creation time?

    So I build myself mechanism for both the rotating axes and the slides first and at them to the tasks?
     I think I dont quite get how driven by a motor manifest in robotstudio?



  • k_schmid
    k_schmid ✭
    edited October 2019
    4 months later abb support hasnt been able to even classify "sharing an axis  with 2 robots" as a bug or feature request.
    We have been through 3 of their experts and have explained the problem over and over.
    Most depressing support experience of any company ever unfortunately.
  • lemster68
    lemster68 ✭✭✭
    So you want to share an axis between two robots?  I did that years ago.  The axis needs its own task, and the two robots take turns with coordinated motion.  UNLESS, you mean share at the same time.  It might be doable in the same fashion.
    Lee Justice
  • Northwelder
    Northwelder ✭
    I agree with k_schmid. ABB provides very little support. I'm to the point of not purchasing another ABB robot. We started with 1 flexcell and up to expanding. I think AB makes one of the best robots out there but sadly their Robot Studio support is SOOO POOOR . 
  • kschmid
    kschmid ✭
    edited November 2019
    Thanks for the reply, the axis needs to be used at the same time, synchronous. I didnt plan the hardware.
    I would have been OK to have confirmation that it is not possible (or a bug) but rather I got 4 months of insentient vague "maybes".
    Now my colleagues think I cannot do my job.

    So @abb for about the 150th times: Is there a way of synchronously using an axis with 2 robots?
  • graemepaulin
    graemepaulin mod
    When you say "I am planning on 2 robots and 2 external axes ( 1 linear, 1 rotating)" is one of the robots fixed and one on the linear axis?
  • k_schmid
    k_schmid ✭
    There is a rotational axis for the work piece. The robots are supposed to share the vertical linear axis
  • graemepaulin
    graemepaulin mod
    So the robots are both on the one carriage on the vertical axis? 
  • kschmid
    kschmid ✭
    edited November 2019
    Yes, exactly. We are trying to fake it with a 2 axis positioner instead but it adds  complexity.
    My understanding its a pure robot studio limitation 3 separate abb people couldn't get around it so far.
  • graemepaulin
    graemepaulin mod

    Is the goal of the simulation to provide a visual representation of the process or to do offline programing as it would be in the real world?

    If the former there is probably more scope to hash something together that would look the part but the program would not be anything like a real system.

  • k_schmid
    k_schmid ✭
    edited November 2019
    The physical system has been build like it now, partly because we couldnt confirm its not supported.
    It needs to work, visualization is nice to have
  • graemepaulin
    graemepaulin mod
    Can you post a graphic of the system - I can not picture what it looks like.
  • kschmid
    kschmid ✭
    The rendering is a bit confusing too but its the only approved material


  • graemepaulin
    graemepaulin mod

    A picture is worth a thousand words.

    Will give it a go but it the experts have failed......

  • kschmid
    kschmid ✭
    edited November 2019
    Robotstudio doesn't let me move the frame of 2 robots by the same axis.
    Seems a bit like an arbitrary limitation.
    I was super surprised that is uncommon but i also couldn't find any video or similar of a real system doing this.
  • kschmid
    kschmid ✭
    Honestly, even confirmation that this is unsupported would be some progress.

  • graemepaulin
    graemepaulin mod

    Not surprisingly I also got no where.

    I have raised a support case with the factory support team - can take some days for a reply if they are busy on cases that affect production.

    Will let you know the answer once received.

  • kschmid
    kschmid ✭
    edited November 2019
    Fantastic, we have one as well. Unresolved for month and probably just closed by abb now :)
    The reference case for this is: AU190808-367796

    Post edited by kschmid on
  • graemepaulin
    graemepaulin mod

    Reply is that this system configuration is possible.

    They think it should be able to be done without a customised motion configuration file - but if not then they will have to build a custmised motion configuration file.

  • k_schmid
    k_schmid ✭
    edited November 2019
    We asked for a quote for such a configuration file and we are still waiting.
    I think they made one and found it wouldn't work.
    We cannot wait around for things that never happen. I was considering making a complaint but no idea where.
    Anyways, very disappointed with the whole thing.
    Post edited by k_schmid on
  • graemepaulin
    graemepaulin mod
    The factory team are working on proving if a customised config file is needed.
  • k_schmid
    k_schmid ✭
    edited November 2019
    That would be a miracle (fingers crossed). How did you do this?
    Thanks a million times again
    Post edited by k_schmid on
  • k_schmid
    k_schmid ✭
    So abb sales come by promising a happy ending. We see about that...
  • k_schmid
    k_schmid ✭
    5 months and 4 different people in they are "still investigating" the problem
  • vulpes_h
    vulpes_h ✭✭
    edited December 2019
    It should not be that difficult to get a multi-move system for this.
    would let one robot control the drives for external axis and the other robot follow the first one by moving the work object.
    it was performed at Abb 2010 ,, they should be able to do this at this point!!
    no difference in this and a welding table where there are rotating axis.
  • k_schmid
    k_schmid ✭
    edited December 2019
    How does the second robots coordinate system get updated then? I am sure this has been done and I am baffled at how abb is unable to handle this question.
    They have been talking about (but have been unable to provide) an addition al configuration file we have to buy. Your solution wouldn't need that ?

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